Live coverage: Senators grill Trump’s Treasury pick

Greg Nash

The Hill is providing live coverage on Friday of Steve Mnuchin’s confirmation hearing before the Senate Finance Committee. 

Mnuchin says he would label China a currency manipulator if the situation changes

3:46 p.m.

Mnuchin said if necessary he would recommend labeling China a currency manipulator.

Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.), who acknowledged that while Beijing isn’t currently manipulating its currency, that could change and he asked Mnuchin if he would he commit to changing the policy.

“I would,” Mnuchin said.

President-elect Donald Trump has threatened to formally call China a currency manipulator if they deliberately lower the value of the yuan to gain an advantage in international trade. 

China has been making efforts to maintain the value of its currency in the world market. 

Mnuchin said that any country that adjusts the value of its currency to make their exports cheaper to foreign buyers is violating of global trade rules and should be held accountable. 

Mnuchin hearings draws to a close, nomination appears on track

3:29 p.m.

After roughly five and a half hours of testimony, Mnuchin’s time before the Senate Finance Committee has drawn to a close. He faced some aggressive questions from Democrats on the committee, but there was little to suggest that the state of his nomination to be the next Treasury Secretary is in any danger.

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) heaped praise on him as he wrapped up the confirmation hearing.

“You’ve certainly impressed a lot of people here. Certainly me,” he said.

 

Mnuchin says he backs Trump pledge to not cut Social Security, Medicare benefits

3:03 p.m.

Mnuchin said he supports President-elect Trump’s promise not to cut Social Security or Medicare benefits, though didn’t specify what that would entail.

“I absolutely support the president’s promise,” said Mnuchin. “That’s why I’m here.”

Mnuchin would be a trustee of Social Security and Medicare’s trust funds, which manage the distribution of payments. But Mnuchin didn’t elaborate on what counts as a cut when pressed by Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.). 

Stabenow asked Mnuchin whether raising the retirement age or adjusting benefits would count as cut to the Trump administration, but Mnuchin said he hasn’t discussed the details yet.

Democrats have tried to pin Republicans into sticking to Trump’s pledge not to cut Social Security or Medicare benefits. The Social Security and Medicare trust funds are projected to run out of money by 2034 and 2028 respectively, according to a federal analysis released in June.

 

Mnuchin says tax reform shouldn’t add to the deficit

2:59 p.m

Mnuchin said he thinks that tax reform should be deficit-neutral.

“I think we want to make sure that tax reform doesn’t increase the size of the deficit,” Mnuchin said. He noted that the administration believes in “dynamic scoring” that factors economic growth into cost estimates.

House Republicans and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) have also said they want tax reform to be revenue-neutral. 

A revenue-neutral bill may be easier to pass. If Congress wants to pass a tax-reform bill through budget reconciliation, which would prevent the Senate from being able to filibuster it, the bill can’t increase the deficit outside of the 10-year budget window.

 

Mnuchin says he is committed to bipartisan plan for Fannie and Freddie

2:45 p.m. 

Mnuchin said that he doesn’t support “recap and release” for mortgage giants Fannie Mae, sending shares of stock plummeting.

He said that with more than three decades of experience he has specific expertise in the mortgage industry.

“For a very long periods of time I think that Fannie and Freddie have been very well run without creating risk to the government as well as they’ve played an important role,” he told the panel.

“I believe that these are very important entities to provide the necessary liquidity for housing finance,” he said.

“What I’ve committed to that I will work with both the Democrats and Republicans.”

Mnuchin said he believes there is a bipartisan fix for Fannie and Freddie and one that won’t “end up with a giant bailout” or where “we don’t run the risk of completely limiting housing finance.”

“What I will commit to is my objective is to find a bipartisan solution to it and I would welcome the opportunity to sit down with people on that.” said.

Fannie and Freddie needed $188 billion to stay afloat during the economic downturn.

Congress has failed since the financial crisis in 2008 to deliver a viable plan that would gradually unwind the two entities and take them out from under government control. 

 

Mnuchin clarifies Trump’s proposed “border tax”

2.28 p.m.

Mnuchin sought to provide clarity on Trump’s proposed “border tax,” saying that it would not be an across-the board tax on goods.

In recent tweets, Trump has threatened a tax on car companies that make products in other countries.

Wyden — the first person to question Mnuchin a second time after a short recess — asked Mnuchin what products would be subject to the tax. “Working class people want to know is, gas going to be part of this?” he said.

Mnuchin said that Trump has suggested “that for certain companies that move jobs, that there may be repercussions to that.“

“He has not suggested in any way an across-the-board 35-percent border tax,” Mnuchin added. “If anything, quite the contrary. As you said, he has concerns about things that impact the price of gasoline and others.”

Mnuchin said that a broad-based tax “couldn’t be further from anything he’d possibly consider.”

 

Mnuchin discussed modern Glass-Stegall with Trump

2:17 p.m.

Mnuchin said he discussed with President-elect Trump instituting a modern version of the Glass-Steagall Act, a 1933 law that barred consumer banks from entering the investment market.

Reimposing Glass-Steagall was a surprising, last minute addition to the Republican platform at the GOP convention in July. The law’s biggest supporters are often Democrats, though Trump’s populism-oriented campaign embraced it.  

Mnuchin said he doesn’t support bring Glass-Steagall back, but talked with Trump about a “21st century” version of the law. He suggested part of that could come through redefining the “Volcker Rule,” a Dodd-Frank Act provision that bans banks from investing their own assets in certain risky products, called proprietary trading.

Mnuchin said bringing back Glass-Steagall “would have very big implications to the liquidity and capital markets and banks being able to complete necessary lending.”

“I support the Volcker Rule, but there needs to be proper definition around the Volcker Rule so that banks can understand exactly what they can do and what they can’t do,” he said.

Mnuchin’s discussions with Trump about a modern Glass-Steagall means it could be high priority for the administration, but a possible point of contention with House Republicans.

The CHOICE Act, a massive Dodd-Frank overhaul introduced last year, contains a full Volcker Rule repeal. The bill, introduced by House Financial Services Committee Chairman Jeb Hensarling (R-Texas), has served as the House GOP’s platform for financial regulatory reform.

Mnuchin: Unemployment rate is “not real”

1:48 p.m.

Mnuchin dismissed the sharp decline in the unemployment rate as “not real,” arguing that the average American still hasn’t felt anything from the economic recovery.

He said that his travels with Trump has changed his perspective, as he argued the nation’s needs a new approach.

In so doing, Trump’s pick to head the Treasury Department dismissed the validity of one of the nation’s central economic guideposts.

“I absolutely understand why he got elected,” said Mnuchin. “The average American worker has gone absolutely nowhere. The unemployment rate is not real.”

Mnuchin was making a broader point about the struggles of working class Americans that may not be captured by a single economic data point. But his skepticism about the worth of the unemployment rate as a measure of economic health falls in line with previous comments from Trump himself.

On multiple occasions in the past, Trump has dismissed the “phony numbers” reported out by the Labor Department, arguing that the nation’s true jobless rate is much higher.

“The unemployment number, as you know, is totally fiction,” he said at post-election rally in Iowa.

Republicans have argued in the past there should be more focus on alternate ways to measure the nation’s labor market, noting that potential workers that give up searching for a job after six months are no longer counted as unemployed.

Heller critical, skeptical of Mnuchin’s foreclosure record 

1:27 p.m.

 

Sen. Dean Heller (R-Nev.), one of the most likely Republicans to oppose Mnuchin, appeared skeptical and unsatisfied with the Treasury pick’s defense of his time at OneWest.

Heller, a vulnerable senator up for reelection in 2018, questioned Mnuchin’s reasons for buying OneWest and criticized him for not answering his questions about the bank’s Nevada operations.

Nevada was devastated by the housing crisis, making foreclosure a crucial topic in Heller’s state. He’s been under immense pressure from liberal advocacy groups, targeting him with television ads in Nevada meant to turn his constituents against Mnuchin.

Heller told The Hill that his support for Mnuchin depended on the Treasury pick’s answers to several housing questions. 

Heller asked Mnuchin how Nevadans had mortgages with OneWest, how many of them were foreclosed on and how many sought loan modifications. He said he’s asked those questions several times over the past month and appeared irritated at Mnuchin’s lack of answers.

“This is the seventh time I’ve asked. I asked you in my office and had my staff follow up on it,” said Heller, “and we still can’t get the answers.”

Mnuchin apologized for the lack of response, saying he’s “absolutely committed” to getting the information from OneWest.

Heller asked Mnuchin on whether he bought OneWest to turn a profit or help people keep their homes. 

Mnuchin said he bought the bank to build a business and protect homeowners. 

“I saw the opportunity that we thought we could turn around a regional bank and turn it from what was a lousy mortgage bank into an attractive regional bank,” said Mnuchin, insisting loan modifications would be more lucrative than foreclosures.

Mnuchin said he did make “a lot of money” from OneWest, but could have made more by buying bank stocks “and I wouldn’t have had to worked nearly as hard.”

Heller also pressed Mnuchin if he foreclosed on Nevadans to make profit from an FDIC loss sharing agreement for failing mortgages. OneWest received $1.2 billion from the agreement.

Mnuchin denied he tried to take advantage of the agreement, which he said was negated by $2 billion in losses and loan modification fees.

Heller seemed unconvinced.

“So you’re not saying that it’s not a motivation to foreclose on a home,” he said. “$1.2 billion.”

 

Mnuchin says he’ll be administration’s leader on tax reform

12:53 p.m

Mnuchin said that he would be the Trump administration official who will take the lead on tax reform.

“I would look forward to working with the House and the Senate, both Republicans and Democrats, to move forward with tax legislation,” he said.

Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.) expressed concerns about the fact that Trump’s campaign tax plan was estimated by outside groups to increase the debt by trillions of dollars.

Mnuchin said Trump’s campaign had a “modest” campaign staff and had to rely on outside estimates of the cost of the tax plan. The campaign agreed with some of the outside groups’ assumptions but disagreed with others.

He added that Trump has a “pro-growth economic tax plan,” and said that the administration would be sensitive to the costs of the plan. 

 

Mnuchin calls for debt ceiling hike ‘sooner rather than later’

12:48 p.m.

Mnuchin said that he wants to work with Congress to raise the amount of federal debt the United States is legally allowed to have sooner rather than later.

“I would like us the raise the debt ceiling sooner rather than later so we don’t run the risk of defaulting,” said Mnuchin, insisting that the government is obligated to honor its debt.

Mnuchin was responding to questions from Sen. Michael Bennet (D-Colo.) about whether he agrees with President-elect Donald Trump’s previous statement to renegotiate the country’s debt.

Trump in May said he could make deal to reduce the debt by buying back U.S. government bonds at reduced interest rates. 

“The bonds are absolutely sacred,” Trump told the Wall Street Journal. “I’m saying if interest rates go up, you can buy debt at a discount on the market.”

Mnuchin said that Trump and he believe “honoring the U.S. debt is the most important thing,” and that fostering economic growth is the best way to do it.

The U.S. is projected to reach the debt limit on March 16. A default on the country’s $19 trillion debt could trigger and international economic crisis, and Democrats insist that the ceiling be raised separate from spending cuts.

Republicans counter that the government has means to prioritize debt payments and avoid a crisis, insisting Democrats are using the limit’s danger as a cynical ploy to avoid fiscal discipline. 

 

Mnuchin defends Trump’s business plan

12:30 p.m.

Mnuchin defended Trump’s plan to remove himself from his businesses, and said that he would make sure that the law is followed.

“I can assure you that in my job of Treasury Secretary, whatever responsibilities I have to monitor these issues, which are very important, I can assure you that I will do,” he said.

Sen. Ben Cardin (D-Md.) asked Mnuchin how he would go about making sure that Trump is complying with the Constitution and his business entities aren’t getting special favors. Cardin blasted Trump for not divesting from his companies.

Mnuchin said, “I know that the president-elect is absolutely following the law and is committed to following the law.” He noted that while Trump has not put his assets in blind trust, he has removed himself from his businesses and put his sons in charge of them.

He said that Treasury has many lawyers and there is a large ethics group.

“I can assure you that we will make sure that we absolutely follow the law and the Constitution, and I have every reason to believe that the president-elect absolutely wants to adhere to it and will do so,” he said.

Cardin also said that he and another senator were going to send Mnuchin a letter requesting an investigation into allegations that Trump aide Anthony Scaramucci has violated sanctions against Russia.

Mnuchin said that if a letter is sent to him, either he or his staff would properly look into it.

 

Mnuchin, Brown spar over OneWest foreclosures

12:26 p.m.

The nastiest exchange of the hearing now belongs to Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) and Mnuchin.

While several Democrats focused their critiques on Mnuchin’s use of offshore entities for a range of investment enterprises, Brown zeroed in on Mnuchin’s time leading OneWest Bank and how it went about foreclosing on homeowners after the financial crisis.

In an exchange rife with crosstalk and a clearly frustrated Mnuchin, Brown peppered the Treasury nominee with a host of questions about OneWest’s record as a bank, and whether it did enough to help homeowners stay in their homes, rather than taking them from them.

“The OneWest purchase went well for the Treasury Secretary-designee, but it was a disaster for homeowners,” said Brown.

Brown rattled off a range of complaints against OneWest while Mnuchin was at its helm, noting that community groups had a long list of gripes with how the bank went about dealing with struggling homeowners.

Mnuchin repeatedly tried to defend his record at the bank, as he did in his opening statement, but Brown repeatedly cut him off, accusing him of trying to run out the clock on his question time.

Mnuchin, who has never testified before Congress before, was clearly caught off guard by Brown’s aggressive stance.

“It seems to me, in all due respect, you just want to shoot questions at me,” he said. “It’s not that I’m being defensive. I’m proud of these results.”

Mnuchin regrets foreclosure mistakes, ‘Octomom’ case

12:02 p.m.

Mnuchin said that OneWest had made mistakes foreclosing on homes with mortgages the bank inherited, despite his best efforts to offer loan modifications.

“There were mistakes. We regret those mistakes,” said Mnuchin. “Anyone who thinks we made more money foreclosing on a loan than modifying a loan has no understanding.”

Mnuchin’s comments were in response to questions from Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), who mentioned three cases of foreclosures in his home state. 

Those included an elderly woman who was foreclosed on after a 27 cent payment error, another who was mistakenly assumed not to live in the home with a OneWest mortgage and a couple who asked for a loan modification but got a foreclosure.

Mnuchin boasted about OneWest’s low error rate and compliance with federal regulators, but admitted some cases slipped through the cracks. He also said he and his investors never wanted IndyMac’s affiliated reverse-mortgage lender, but had to take it as part of their bid.

Mnuchin said his hand was forced on some foreclosures by Housing Department (HUD) rules on spousal house ownership. He said he’d like to review those rules with the department if he’s confirmed.

“I would hope that HUD would seriously consider looking at these things,” said Mnuchin. “These are government guaranteed programs where we are foreclosing on senior citizens”

Democrats and liberal advocacy groups have highlighted individual foreclosure stories to paint Mnuchin as a cruel corporatist. Mnuchin said he regrets such cases and pointed to “Octomom” Nadya Suleman’s case as particularly painful.

Suleman and her 14 children — including the octuplets that brought her fame — lost their home to foreclosure in 2012. She tried to raise money to keep the house, but failed to do so.

Mnuchin called Suleman’s case “the most troubling” and insisted OneWest did all they could to find her a new home.

“It was a terrible situation,” Mnuchin said. “We worked very hard to move her to another home that they can afford.”

 

Mnuchin says missing $100 million in assets was an ‘oversight’

Mnuchin tells lawmakers he initially failed to disclose $100 million in assets in an “unintentional” oversight.

Several Senate Democrats have expressed concern over revised documents he filed with the committee Wednesday showing the additional assets. But Mnuchin blamed the complexity of nominee paperwork for those assets missing initially.

“As you all can appreciate, filling out these government forms is quite complicated,” he said. “The paperwork … was quite a job.”

Mnuchin said that the oversight occurred because he was working to get his financial disclosure and other information to lawmakers as quickly as possible, calling his original 43-page disclosure a “preliminary questionnaire.” Most of the millions in assets Mnuchin added later on were various homes the hedge fund manager owned.

“Any oversight was unintentional,” he added. “My lawyer, who is quite sophisticated in this stuff … believed we had filled out the form correctly.”

Mnuchin also defended his position as a director of Dune Capital International, an entity based in the Cayman Islands, a notorious tax haven.

He argued that setting up an entity on the island, where there were no employees or clients, was done at the behest of clients seeking different investment opportunities and not to lower his own tax bill.

“I did not use a Cayman Island entity in any way to avoid taxes for myself. I paid U.S. taxes on all that income, so there was no benefit to me in the Cayman entity,” he said. “They were merely an accommodation to pension funds and nonprofit institutions.”

 

Mnuchin says he’s ‘concerned’ with low IRS staff, breaking from GOP

11:29 a.m.

Mnuchin said he’s concerned about low staffing levels at the IRS, breaking from a major Republican push to hinder the agency’s ability to target political groups.

Mnuchin said he was surprised that the number of IRS employees has dropped almost 30 percent and worried how the agency could collect revenue with a smaller staff.

“Perhaps the IRS just started with way too many people, but I am concerned about the staffing of the IRS,” Mnuchin said. “That is an important part of fixing the tax gap,” referring to the difference between the amount of money owed to and received by the federal government.

Mnuchin said he’s also concerned with the agency’s technological ability to offer swift customer service and defend sensitive information from cyberattacks. 

Congress cut the IRS budget by $1.2 billion between 2010 and 2015, spearheaded by a Republican effort to rein in the agency after its political targeting scandal. That’s forced the IRS to shed employees and stents efforts to upgrade its technology. 

Mnuchin didn’t say whether Congress should boost IRS funding, but his concerns could be difficult to fix without more money.  

 

Mnuchin defends offshore entities

11:19 a.m.

 

 

Mnuchin defended his hedge fund’s use of offshore entities and said they weren’t used so that he could avoid paying taxes.

“I can assure you I paid all my taxes as was required,” he said.

In response to questions about the accounts from Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), the Treasury nominee said he, “like all other hedge funds and many, many private equity funds, set up offshore entities that are primarily intended to accommodate non-profits and pensions that want to invest through these offshore entities.”

He said that for the purposes of his taxes, the entities were taxed as U.S. corporations or partnerships.

Wyden said he would revisit the issue of offshore deals.

“Again, I’m very troubled about this question about how you’re going to un-rig the system if you’ve got a record of taking advantage of tax shelters,” Wyden said.

 

Mnuchin defends OneWest ‘loan modification machine’

11:00 a.m.

Mnuchin was quick to defend his record at the bank accused of violating federal housing and state foreclosure laws, a frequent target of Democratic criticism.

Mnuchin and a group of investors purchased failing IndyMac bank and its portfolio of risky mortgages in 2008. They revamped and renamed the bank OneWest and foreclosed on more than 36,000 homes.

But Mnuchin insisted his efforts to turn around the bank turned it not into a “foreclosure machine” but a loan modification machine.

“Since I was first nominated to serve as Treasury secretary, I have been maligned as taking advantage of others’ hardships in order to earn a buck,” said Mnuchin. “Nothing could be further from the truth.”

Mnuchin said OneWest helped more than 100,000 homeowners keep their homes, tangling with other financiers of the failing mortgages and passing repeated federal regulatory reviews. He also insisted his efforts to revamp IndyMac, which turned a profit in one year, helped saved more homes.

“If we had not bought IndyMac, the bank would likely have been broken up and sold in pieces to private investors, where the outcome for consumers could have been much bleaker,” Mnuchin said. 

“If confirmed as Treasury secretary, I will work diligently and compassionately for the American people, so that we never endure anything like the meltdown of 2008 again,” he said.

 

Democrats and Republicans feud over “Valium” crack

10:46 a.m

 

 

Mnuchin has yet to give his opening statement, and Democrats and Republicans are already at each other’s throats.

Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.) was permitted to ask a handful of questions before jumping to another hearing, but he also carved out time to needle the committee’s top Democrat.

After Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) gave a lengthy opening segment lobbing a host of attacks at Mnuchin, Roberts suggested a way for Wyden to calm down going forward.

“Sen. Wyden, I’ve got a Valium pill here that you might want to take for a second round,” he joked.

The jab did not go over well with the other party. Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) pounced on the remarks, calling it an inauspicious start to the committee’s work for the year.

“I just can’t quite believe that the senator would say that,” he said. “I just hope that doesn’t set the tone for 2017.”

Members of both parties quickly began talking over each other, with Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) struggling to regain control.

Roberts said the comment amounted to a “little dose of humor” and apologized “if I have, you know, uh, encouraged your wrath, sir.”

Wyden went on to complain that Roberts was taking up valuable committee time with his comments. And in turn, Roberts expressed his own anger.

“Fine, Ron! I’m done!” he said as he wrapped up his remarks.

 

Wyden: ‘Mnuchin rule’ on taxes is already in danger 

10:32 a.m.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) criticized plans from President-elect Donald Trump and the GOP on repealing ObamaCare and tax reform, saying that they violate the “Mnuchin rule” that there will be no absolute tax cuts for the rich.

Mnuchin had said there wouldn’t be a tax cut for the wealthy in a CNBC interview in November. Wyden said that Mnuchin has “laid down a clear and specific marker” on tax reform.

However, Wyden said that repealing ObamaCare, Republicans’ top priority, would “immediately violate the pledge of no tax cuts for the wealthy.”

He also took aim at Trump’s tax plan. Wyden said it would cut tax rates across the board and increase taxes for many middle-class people because it would eliminate the head-of-household filing status.

“It sounds to me like the Mnuchin rule is already on the ropes,” Wyden said.

Wyden slams Mnuchin’s tropical outposts

10:17 a.m.

The top Democrat on the Senate Finance Committee has come out swinging against Mnuchin’s maze of financial arrangements, accusing the long-time investor of escaping taxes with byzantine maneuvers.

Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) slammed Mnuchin for his incredibly complex financial arrangement — his financial disclosure form filed with Congress ran 43 pages — arguing that its primary purpose was to enable him to pay as little taxes as possible.

“There is no clearer example than Mr. Mnuchin’s hedge fund setting up outposts in Anguilla and the Cayman Islands, an action that can only be explained by the island’s zero percent tax rate,” he said in his opening remarks. “It certainly wasn’t for ease of commute.”

Hatch defends Mnuchin from “specious lines of attack”

10:08 a.m.

In a opening remarks, Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) made a spirited case for Mnuchin as Treasury secretary while batting down long-standing gripes from Democrats.

“Objectively speaking, I don’t believe anyone can reasonably argue that Mr. Mnuchin is unqualified for the position,” he said. “If the confirmation process focused mainly on the question of a nominee’s qualifications, there would be little, if any, opposition to Mr. Mnuchin’s nomination.”

Hatch took head on a common complaint from Democrats, who have sought to paint Mnuchin as the “Foreclosure King” for his tenure at OneWest Bank, a financial institution he and other investors established after the financial crisis that took on a host of troubled mortgages.

Hatch argued that there is no credible evidence that Mnuchin ever broke any law, regulation, or industry standard while at the bank, and efforts to paint him as a wrongdoer miss the mark.

“I’ll let Mr. Mnuchin defend himself from the specious lines of attack, which, given the lack of credibility in the accusations, shouldn’t be too difficult for a man of his talents,” said Hatch.

 

Mnuchin makes his Washington debut

9:58 a.m.

Steven Mnuchin, the former Goldman Sachs executive and investor tapped by President-elect Donald Trump to head the Treasury Department, is not much of a known commodity in Washington. Having built his career on Wall Street and later in California, Mnuchin has never spent significant time in the capital. But he is expected to lean on his extensive private sector experience to sell himself as the man to be the next Treasury Secretary and help push Trump’s economic policies.

Mnuchin will be introduced to the Senate Finance Committee by House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) and House Financial Services Committee Chairman Jeb Hensarling (R-Texas), according to nametags placed at the dais.

Tags Ben Cardin Bill Nelson Bob Casey Bob Menendez Dean Heller Debbie Stabenow Donald Trump Michael Bennet Mitch McConnell Orrin Hatch Pat Roberts Ron Wyden Sherrod Brown Treasury

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